BBC DOG Poll

If I wanted to tape a favourite series of mine to keep, even if it appeared on BBC CHOICE first I'd wait until it's on BBC 1 or 2 so I could get a clean version. But then that's another part of the reasoning behind it as well, isn't it? So that if you tape material (or capture or whatever) they'd get their credit burned into the picture. I don't like it, but that's another reason why.

Some of them can be nice from a design point of view, but in general I really rather would watch a DOGless version of a TV programme given the choice. I can understand them on Music, News and Sports channels, it'd be harder to tell the difference otherwise because you can't instantly tell the channel from the output, one music video, news event or sport would normally be on lots of different channels. I know you might get, say, an episode of The Young Ones on UK Gold, BBC TWO, BBC CHOICE, Play UK or Paramount Comedy, but when you watch a TV programme you tend to watch the whole thing so you'd see the ident at the start, break bumpers etc. And anyway, as has already been said, there's EPGs!

Like I've said, the DOG isn't just burnt into the picture on the channel, if you go and buy an expensive TV,you only have to have the same channel on for a couple of hours a day, and it wouldn't take longer than a couple of months for it to be burnt into your screen, so no matter what channel you're watching, you would always be watching UK Gold in a way. I'm sure if this happenned to the pro-DOG bunch they'd be right off signing that petition. Iv'e already sen big projection TVs in shops that have several channel logos burnt into them. If anyone bought a £2000 TV, had a DOG burnt into it and was a pro-DOG person, there's an almost 100% chance you would change your mind. In fact, I've bene reading that petition and someone made a comment that they were pro-DOG until his expensive RP set got ruined by them.

(Edited by james2001 at 10:22 am on Feb. 3, 2002)

There was a corking DOG on E4 last night.

'E4 MOVIE'

.. during Fever Pitch. Like we hadn't noticed it was a movie.

E4 have loads of new dogs like that now. Like during Friends & ER on thursdays it says 'E4 Brand New'! It just looks stupid and it's pointless, it should just say 'E4'

James2001 - 'Also- just a question for the pro- DOG crew. If you'd just been out and spent a fortune on a projection or plasma TV and your nice new TV had a channel logo permanantally burnt into it, would you still be pro-DOG? Doubt it.'


I dont think that people would watch a tv channel for that long. On Skys Backchat segment, a few months ago a man e-mailed sky about his daughter who was constantly listening to radio stations on sky digital. He was concerned that the still image would burn into his screen, and sky said that it would need something like 2 years of constant viewing for it to be burned into the television.


                                 Paul

(Edited by bbcworld2001 at 1:42 pm on Feb. 3, 2002)

It is very interesting that the poll shows that a majority of people in this topic approve of DOGs, however when reading the posts, it's obvious that those who are for them are fairly moderate in their liking, however those who are against them feel pretty strongly.

I also suspect that the survey quoted in the Radio Times was based on a question like 'Would you find it helpful to have an on-screen reminder of which channel you are watching?' rather than 'Would you like a channel logo superimposed over all the programs you see?' !!!

And... while I'm moaning, I very much agree that having web addresses on screen all the time is pointless. As someone else said, anyone who wants to visit a channel's web site needs to apply about 0.1 seconds thought to work out what the URL might be!   I'd imagine that only showing the address at key moments (like end credits and menus) is just as effective.

Oh yes and another thing!... I hate the in-programme 'coming up next graphics' that animate on channels like BBC Choice... it really is SO IRRITATING!!!   I have a different button on my remote control that also tells me that if I want to know... plus endless ECPs..... ahhhhhhrgh!

I am not anti-BBC, in fact I generally think they are great, neither am I anti-branding, however I think the BBC should try to be distinctive and not follow the herd. Given the power to do so, I'd get rid off DOGs (except Sporting Events, and News 24), ban all in-programme ‘coming up next' and ECPs. Quite happy to keep logos and branding on the promos between programmes as well as logos on opening credits.

Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant … but you will be pleased to know that I feel better now that I've got all that off my chest!

With a channel DOG (perticuly a bright one) you only have to watch a channel for a couple of hours each day for a couple of weeks to have the logo permanatally burnt in if its a plasma or rear projector.

I don't know how long it takes for a DOG to burn-in, but instead of removing the DOGs, it might be an excuse for channel operators to animate them! That way the image is no longer static and less of a problem.

Perhaps the answer is for faint DOGs to appear once every 15 minutes for a minute or something? Ulster Television did a little experimenting with DOGs back in the late 80's or early 90's, where a small version of their 'signal wave' logo appeared in the corner of the screen for a very short time near the start of a programme. The disappearing DOG idea didn't last too long at UTV.

It might be true today... but its only just getting there. Although the Beeb seem to get their act together right from the start of doing URLs on screen (bbc.co.uk/programmename), ITV have only in recent months begun to get there.

Remember when anything on LWT was to be found at something like GeeWhiz.com?? Its not all that long since. Their web policy still seems to be highly confused.

I think we forget that to the punters who've not gripped the web yet - its still a confusing world. At risk of seeming to be rather too pro BBC - at least (as kinda usual) they worked out how to do it before they got started and have not had the need to change how they name their sights since the beginning.

Interactive DOGs would be the best answer, have it appear as soon as you watch one channel and the viewer can have the option to remove it when they want. Although I don't like the way SKY Sports always have their interactive quiz dog as it's not needed all the time and clutter's up the screen so much. DOGs arn't to bad if there of a small size and transparent.

Press 'backup' - that removes the 'press red' graphics on sky and BBC channels.

Let's face it. There are enough reasons against DOGs. And as AJB said, the questions posed in surveys to justify their use are cunningly worded to make it sound like something else is being offered to what is ACTUALLY given.

The plain and simple fact is, DOGs are not for information. DOGs are not for branding. A tiny logo in the corner doesn't speak much for the brand image.

No, they are simply an extension of the copyright statement - it's the broadcasters' way of making it less appealling to make video recordings off their channels for keeps. Plain and simple. That's the one and only reason. Nothing else.

And it works. Which is why despite viewer feedback they refuse to get rid of them.

Forget this, 'it's because I can't be bothered to get out of my chair to get the remote control and even then I couldn't be bothered to press the INFO button'.

Besides, if you really are that far gone physically, you won't have been able to turn the TV set on in the first place, would you? And if you're never actually changing channels, you don't need a DOG to tell you what one channel you're watching!!!