IS
Wait, wasn’t that first one mooted as a potential replacement for the blocks in 1992? I thought Matt Forrest’s Snapper Films did that, not M L-N?
It does look a bit similar to that, doesn't it? Coincidence, I would think...
There's only so many ways to draw a number 4.
It looks more like the original version of the orange Channel 4 logo
Hey, lookit! Prototype Channel 4 logos!
[image comes from a friend of mine]
From the ML-N book mentioned earlier... "Brand Identity for Television... with knobs on"
From the ML-N book mentioned earlier... "Brand Identity for Television... with knobs on"
Wait, wasn’t that first one mooted as a potential replacement for the blocks in 1992? I thought Matt Forrest’s Snapper Films did that, not M L-N?
It does look a bit similar to that, doesn't it? Coincidence, I would think...
There's only so many ways to draw a number 4.
It looks more like the original version of the orange Channel 4 logo
GE
As well as the current BBC News did he do the flags as well?
Did he do BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge?
Did he do the ITN News Channel as well, or was that someone else?
I posted the concept images for World's original flags upthread - I don't know for sure if he was behind the News 24 version but it seems pretty likely.
I'm fairly sure L-N were behind the ITN arrows identity as used on their news channel.
thegeek
Founding member
As well as the current BBC News did he do the flags as well?
Did he do BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge?
Did he do the ITN News Channel as well, or was that someone else?
I posted the concept images for World's original flags upthread - I don't know for sure if he was behind the News 24 version but it seems pretty likely.
I'm fairly sure L-N were behind the ITN arrows identity as used on their news channel.
IS
I still get a bit irritated that people call them "symbols" rather than idents, but it was nice to see a small tribute.
They are symbols - they represent something
The BBC logo is not an ident but it is symbolic of something. The Channel 4 logo was an ident but its also a symbol
They used the word in its proper meaning, not in the context of the terminology used in telly
I still get a bit irritated that people call them "symbols" rather than idents, but it was nice to see a small tribute.
They are symbols - they represent something
The BBC logo is not an ident but it is symbolic of something. The Channel 4 logo was an ident but its also a symbol
They used the word in its proper meaning, not in the context of the terminology used in telly
Last edited by Inspector Sands on 29 December 2020 7:20am
NG
I still get a bit irritated that people call them "symbols" rather than idents, but it was nice to see a small tribute.
Well it was the name that was used for the channel idents for many years within the BBC, so it is kind of understandable. The word 'ident' is relatively new within the BBC to describe the channel identifier.
On many presentation vision & sound desks, the source button for the BBC One Globe or BBC Two animation was called 'SYM' or 'SYMBOL', and that continued once laser disc replay of the Lambie Nairn BBC One globe and character BBC Two elements arrived (replacing the solid state players that generated the BBC One 'COW' and the BBC Two logo animation).
It was also what NC1 and NC2 called things in regional round-ups. ("On the Symbol for 12 seconds" etc.)
noggin
Founding member
I still get a bit irritated that people call them "symbols" rather than idents, but it was nice to see a small tribute.
Well it was the name that was used for the channel idents for many years within the BBC, so it is kind of understandable. The word 'ident' is relatively new within the BBC to describe the channel identifier.
On many presentation vision & sound desks, the source button for the BBC One Globe or BBC Two animation was called 'SYM' or 'SYMBOL', and that continued once laser disc replay of the Lambie Nairn BBC One globe and character BBC Two elements arrived (replacing the solid state players that generated the BBC One 'COW' and the BBC Two logo animation).
It was also what NC1 and NC2 called things in regional round-ups. ("On the Symbol for 12 seconds" etc.)
Last edited by noggin on 29 December 2020 9:54am
IS
As well as the current BBC News did he do the flags as well?
Did he do BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge?
Did he do the ITN News Channel as well, or was that someone else?
I posted the concept images for World's original flags upthread - I don't know for sure if he was behind the News 24 version but it seems pretty likely.
I'm pretty sure they were responsible for the whole BBC 1997 rebrand so would have done the BBC World branding and the accompanying BBC News 24 ones
As you say the original concept for flags was for BBC World when it launched, but I think that World Service TV might have used it for a bit too, I have seen WSTV versions of it. It was based on elements seen on flags but without actually featuring any specific flags. A great concept but IIRC the 1997 version used by News 24 included the St George flag and possibly the Saltaire
As well as the current BBC News did he do the flags as well?
Did he do BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge?
Did he do the ITN News Channel as well, or was that someone else?
I posted the concept images for World's original flags upthread - I don't know for sure if he was behind the News 24 version but it seems pretty likely.
I'm pretty sure they were responsible for the whole BBC 1997 rebrand so would have done the BBC World branding and the accompanying BBC News 24 ones
As you say the original concept for flags was for BBC World when it launched, but I think that World Service TV might have used it for a bit too, I have seen WSTV versions of it. It was based on elements seen on flags but without actually featuring any specific flags. A great concept but IIRC the 1997 version used by News 24 included the St George flag and possibly the Saltaire
MK
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
I'm glad they stuck with the blocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
SH
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
And it still is. I mean, think of the amount of changes it went through past 4 rebrands after 1982.
The current branding with the 4 breaking up to be free is a favourite, it's very bold and experimental. 2004 will always be my favourite from Channel 4.
It goes to show MLN's work still has purpose and Channel 4 themselves love coming up with new ways to keep it fresh for years to come. They've always been a trendsetter for TV branding and it shows.
I'm glad they stuck with the blocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
And it still is. I mean, think of the amount of changes it went through past 4 rebrands after 1982.
The current branding with the 4 breaking up to be free is a favourite, it's very bold and experimental. 2004 will always be my favourite from Channel 4.
It goes to show MLN's work still has purpose and Channel 4 themselves love coming up with new ways to keep it fresh for years to come. They've always been a trendsetter for TV branding and it shows.
JM
Well this is very sad news to say the least. I can definitely credit Martin as inspiration for me to pursue a career in brand design. I still find myself coming back to his work as a source of inspiration.
I was lucky enough to get my hands on one of his signed Millennium dandelion prints some time ago — this news definitely gives it a whole new emotional weight.
I was lucky enough to get my hands on one of his signed Millennium dandelion prints some time ago — this news definitely gives it a whole new emotional weight.
WH
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
That version did make it on air bizarrely, on Channel 4 News for several years:
Whataday
Founding member
I'm glad they stuck with the blocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcDFuL0LOw
Yes, near miss there. And if they had changed it, that version of the 4 would most likely be long gone now as well, with total redesigns taking place every few years.
And in that alternative universe, someone would pop up on here and say they wished the original design from 1982 had been retained right up to the present and would've been scoffed at and dismissed as nostalgic for thinking a 38 year old design could still be fit for purpose today.
That version did make it on air bizarrely, on Channel 4 News for several years:
JO
Not sure there's more I can add other than to echo the sentiments of others. I would estimate Martin Lambie-Nairn's work is the cornerstone of why many of us became interested in brand design, realising it was a recognised thing we could pursue.
He had a fantastic way of communicating the abstract without resorting to jargon in the various lectures and interviews that can be found on YouTube.
His observations on the importance of developing brand personality and structure, focusing less attention on logos, were extremely astute, and culminated in the masterpiece of deceptive simplicity - the 1997 BBC rebrand, a phenomenal undertaking still much admired today.
His legacy lives on, not only in the timeless creations still on air today but in how many people his work (and the work of his companies) undoubtedly influences across design industries.
Please watch The Sound of TV (episode 2) on iPlayer if you haven't already.
He had a fantastic way of communicating the abstract without resorting to jargon in the various lectures and interviews that can be found on YouTube.
His observations on the importance of developing brand personality and structure, focusing less attention on logos, were extremely astute, and culminated in the masterpiece of deceptive simplicity - the 1997 BBC rebrand, a phenomenal undertaking still much admired today.
His legacy lives on, not only in the timeless creations still on air today but in how many people his work (and the work of his companies) undoubtedly influences across design industries.
Please watch The Sound of TV (episode 2) on iPlayer if you haven't already.