The Newsroom

BBC News Channel General Discussion

(November 2013)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
WO
Worzel
ginnyfan posted:
At this point you really have to ask when and if they will ever fix these issues? As amusing as it is, to us, its been happening so often, even casual viewers must be aware of it. Plus it's not a short mistake than can be ignored, it goes on and on and as we've seen there, the presenter had to fix it on her own. What would have happened if Martine didn't move to the desk? Would we get the chair presenting the full bulletin?

They should just drop the standing opening and have the presenter at the desk since it's so difficult to make cameras accept this new way of opening.


I think its more the fact that some one forgets to switch the template over. One would assume the seated template is the default one and they overide it where necessary.

These problems seem to occur most on weekends rather than weekdays these days and to he honest, it hasn't happened recently.

I'm sure its been mentioned before, they can't reposition the cameras manually until the preset move is complete? If that is the case, that will cause all manner of problems.

I've also seen the cameras go to the wall at the TOTH when Clive Myrie was seated - so its happened both ways.

From the above error, the side camera was zooming in for quite some time and I would assume thats why Martine went back to the desk (first time thats happened).

When I attended a TV pres training seminar I was told the camera will find you and you should stay put.
Last edited by Worzel on 21 July 2014 1:26pm
CR
Critique
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'
DK
DanielK
Critique posted:
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'

Of course, all of those are phrases I have picked up here and learned. It isn't anything too complicated to understand either...
GM
Gary McEwan
DanielK posted:
Critique posted:
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'

Of course, all of those are phrases I have picked up here and learned. It isn't anything too complicated to understand either...


Really? I don't have a clue what 'OTS' is or the phrase 'push in from the front.' Jeez, the school holidays need to finish quickly...
DK
DanielK
Gary McEwan posted:
DanielK posted:
Critique posted:
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'

Of course, all of those are phrases I have picked up here and learned. It isn't anything too complicated to understand either...


Really? I don't have a clue what 'OTS' is or the phrase 'push in from the front.' Jeez, the school holidays need to finish quickly...

OTS maybe, 'push in from the front' is self explanatory, and I'm not at school... Wink
GM
Gary McEwan
DanielK posted:
Gary McEwan posted:
DanielK posted:
Critique posted:
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'

Of course, all of those are phrases I have picked up here and learned. It isn't anything too complicated to understand either...


Really? I don't have a clue what 'OTS' is or the phrase 'push in from the front.' Jeez, the school holidays need to finish quickly...

OTS maybe, 'push in from the front' is self explanatory, and I'm not at school... Wink


The way you go on at times makes me wonder. You do have a certain knack at belittling people who are very knowledgeable...
CI
cityprod
Gary McEwan posted:
DanielK posted:
Critique posted:
DanielK posted:
That video has made me realise that that is a really ugly angle to present the news from, it is almost as bad as the one in the 5 News thread. Basically tucking your ribcage onto the desk edge and arm on it too, far prefer the wide push in from the front. If they really need to have the presenter with the screen as an OTS then let them set up for the centre shot then turn to the side and shoot it from far away and zoom in to make it look as flat as possible.


Why do you continue to feel the need to litter your posts with words that sound vaguely technical? Do you feel intelligent and superior if you say 'OTS' and not everyone knows what it means? By saying 'push in from the front' instead of 'zoom in' do you get a moral victory in that you think it the correct way to name that camera move, as indicated by a photo on Twitter of a screen in a gallery somewhere in Broadcasting House where a button said 'push' instead of 'zoom', or something bizarre like that? By saying 'an explainer' instead of 'he's doing a piece by the screen' do you feel like a part of the TV industry as that's what they call it?

Whilst I appreciate you are not the only person to do this, you are one of the biggest culprits of littering your posts with words to try and make you sound intelligent and knowledgeable. And if you're not adding these words to your posts, you're explaining how you'd do whatever the broadcaster are doing, but better, or making breakthroughs on what a broadcaster is doing wrong.

'No offence'

Of course, all of those are phrases I have picked up here and learned. It isn't anything too complicated to understand either...


Really? I don't have a clue what 'OTS' is or the phrase 'push in from the front.'


OTS is 'Over The Shoulder', used to be known as Window graphics back in the 80s. Pushing the camera in from the front, is a camera move, though I imagine that the actual shot may be a mix of a move in by the camera and a zoom in on the lens, as I don't believe there is much room for the physical move in that studio, not with all the other cameras tracking round the main desk on those dolly rails.
DT
DTV
cityprod posted:
Pushing the camera in from the front, is a camera move, though I imagine that the actual shot may be a mix of a move in by the camera and a zoom in on the lens, as I don't believe there is much room for the physical move in that studio, not with all the other cameras tracking round the main desk on those dolly rails.


I'm guessing that term may not be real as if you Google it, nothing comes up relating to zooms or cameras. If you use Quotation marks the second thing I get is actually from this thread.
MD
mdtauk
Typically the language of the camera comes in with
Descriptions of movement: Pan, Track, Dolly, Zoom, Tilt, Sweep, etc
Descriptions of shots/positioning: Wide, Mid, OTS, Master, Close Up, Medium Close Up, etc

With Automated cameras there may well be a whole new vocabulary, which may or may not be broadcaster specific.
BA
Bail Moderator
Okay guys, back on track now please.

You've both made your points, personally I have no issue with using "industry terms" but I can see how for some people it may lead to confusion. For everyones sake, if you're using a term that you might not think is well know make it clear what you mean. Just like we frown upon txt spk for the same reason.

As an aside we used to have a clever little thingy that gave a description of certain terms and acronyms ( VT, WS MS CU etc) I'll see if we can bring that back.

Any further non News Channel conversations following this = warning.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
I think the main problem with the way the cameras and automation are set up is that once it's gone wrong the director can't do anything until the move which is currently in progress has finished. If a 13 second tracking shot gets into the sequence by mistake, you're going to be stuck with it.

One of the first principles of computer interface design I was taught boils down to being forgiving when the user cocks it up, make sure they can undo it. It seems to me that with no way for the director to get out of the mess they've got themselves into, this system fails on that requirement.
MD
mdtauk
Steve in Pudsey posted:
I think the main problem with the way the cameras and automation are set up is that once it's gone wrong the director can't do anything until the move which is currently in progress has finished. If a 13 second tracking shot gets into the sequence by mistake, you're going to be stuck with it.

One of the first principles of computer interface design I was taught boils down to being forgiving when the user cocks it up, make sure they can undo it. It seems to me that with no way for the director to get out of the mess they've got themselves into, this system fails on that requirement.

As I recall reading through here, the Mosart system has the ability to cancel and reset the camera positions, but that option was deliberately not included in the BH setup, for whatever reason.

Newer posts