Does anyone prefer the ITV1 look now?

Oh give them time. The ITV1 Wales move is just a sop to stop people whining too much, and ingeniously claim they were somehow doing something wonderful by reintroducing the word 'Wales' to the name.

The fact that it's incompetently broadcast will make more people like yourself think "Why do they bother?", and the pressure on ITV1 to make Wales distinctive will vanish.

Personally I think ITV1 Wales and ITV1 Scotland (God knows what you do with Northern Ireland - although it's nowhere near as long as ITV1 Carlton for Central England I suppose) are the bare minimum we can expect. And if you get rid of the national identities, it's advantage to the BBC in the nations.

The announcements are dire though - I keep expecting a VO saying "The Bill is now running five minutes late. Please listen for further announcements."

How can you say that??? That is such a disgraceful thing to say! The Central cake was the BEST and always be the the BEST on screen logo and identity of all time!

You should be ashamed of yourself!

Stop living in the past! tsk!

*strokes BBC balloon collage on wall*

When it arrived two years ago (was it really that long ago? Geez!) I hated it. I hated the fact that Carlton's best ever idents were stopped in their prime, and LWT was wiped out altogether. And now...I still hate it. I'm sorry, but I just don't see why the previous set up was so confusing. You had an ITV logo under the region names, so even people with an IQ below freezing point knew it was part of the network. It's just overkill now.

Overkill?! So you reckon a television company battling for viewership and revenue will think "Oh Jesus, it's overkill. We'd better stop before our brand is too well known".

You are yet another person who fails to acknowledge the fact that as sad as getting rid of the regions was, it cut ITV's losses. Blue and yellow, celebrities, and "ITV1" = ITV1, Britain's entertainment channel = strong brand = increased recognition = overkill = long term ability to build success.

The regions were as lovely as a sleeping cat, but they were not commercially, digitally, televisually, any otherlly friendly in the long term. Of course nobody was "confused", but ITV was still a behind the scenes thing. Now it's a BRAND and a brand that earns the recognition that "Westcountry" simply did not have.

The industry does not allow for this sentimentality. Look at the lineup: BBC One and BBC Two, Channel 4, Channel 5, all the many hundreds of digital channels, and for the ITV Network... Border Television, let's say. It's like putting a cat in with the tigers and expecting it to win. Even if the cat's been coached by its tiger friends, it will never win because that coaching is cancelled out by its stature. Swap that cat with a tiger in every room and you're in business, and you can concentrate on building that tiger's muscles.

And before you go down the route of "Yorkshire Television was a very successful brand" - yes, it was. And even outside Yorkshire it was. But in 2004, the strength of a united ITV1 brand is essential.

I'll draw the Australia comparison again. ATN, SAS, BTQ, HSV, TND mean nothing. "7" certainly does.

Apologies for that rather surreal mess of an analogy I edited in, but it's late.

Am I to presume that "7" is the Australian equivalent of ITV and that ATN, SAS, etc are the equivalent of Granada, Yorkshire and Central?

Yes, they are the regional stations - BTQ for instance is Brisbane. Once upon a time, they each had their own logos but now everything is 7 Network (the Home and Away channel!). And this has been the case for many years - long before Carlton even came into play!

But I should add the system is slightly different and is based on affiliates rather than franchises.

DAS - what you are saying may make commercial sense, but Channel 3 was not thought up so it could become on company - it was meant to be a selection of INDEPENDENT companies who would compete to provide a certain ammount of network programming and to provide a certain ammount of regional programming. It's not meant to be a convenience item for people who could become 'confused' by traveling to a different area.

Since most companies became ITV Plc., there has been nothing to compete for. If ITV1 was a genuinely good service then ratings would not be falling for some programmes. What has happned is that companies no longer have to fight over good programme ideas - and what we are left with is the same boring old crap - Corronation Street, Emmerdale, Corronation Street Show 2 (or 3), Emmerdale Special, Corronation Street omnibus and Antiques Auction. Hell, they're so unoriginal that the soap stars even appear in the shot break between trailer and programme. How imaginative. And of course the regional programming is almost as bad.

Aside from branding it's gone so far that perhaps ITV1 should just get rid of the regions and become one channel, and for Ofcom to re-advertise the licences. Britain needs a truly regional channel with regional identity, and while it may not be as popular as Coronation Street/Emmerdale-style crap it will at least be a regional service for the people who want it. ITV wasn't meant to become one company.

Indeed. And I don't recall disagreeing with any of that, do you? And perhaps that's one of the reasons for a decline in viewership?

But structure and presentation are two completely different things.

The original question was whether we preferred the old, regional style of presentation or the new, national style of presentation.

What I'm saying is that on a historic, sentimental basis, of course people are bound to prefer the old way of doing things. But when you consider how things are done today, it makes complete sense to take drastic action and come up with a brand that is the same throughout the land. ITV1 now have the cohesion, strength and brand that simply would not have been possible three years ago with the local presentation.

I don't know why people keep coming up with this idea of "confusion" - I never said people were confused by the regional system. I said the national brand made the channel visually stronger. And it does - it's a fact!



Yes it does...



No it doesn't! It would be lovely, but loveliness is where it ends. It helps nobody! What would it achieve?! Would more people watch? No. There is no point. I'm not against regional presentation, I loved it. But I can also recognise the point that it is not a necessary thing!



What?! "A regional service for the people who want it"? I'm at a loss!




If I say the word "brand" once more, I might explode.

I was going to say this actually - they are very fresh and funky at the minute... I've seen a couple of the Tammin Sursok ones off of www.BackToTheBay.com and they are very in-your-face whilst having a strong brand.

Please continue...

I think I echo everyone else here when I say yes, having Central TV and everyone showing programmes at different times and having their own presentation and it almost being a different channel to Yorkshire TV was fantastic back in the 70s and 80s. But you had only the BBC to compete with, even when Channel 4 came along there was cross-promo and stuff so it wasn't competiton.

In this multi-channel age, it no longer makes sense and a national, coherent brand like ITV is needed. Anoraks will hate it but most of the public won't give a toss.