Does anyone prefer the ITV1 look now?

I understand exactly what you have written i find it quite hypocritical and a bit patronising actually and i would say you do have "rosy visions " of and English ITV company that is not applicable to the nations . You bible bash about "ITV 1 brand being strong " and "the national look is beneficial over regional presentation" yes perahps in England it is but NOT in Scotland or Northern Ireland we still have regional idents and UTV still have some IVC .That is my whole point Das there is NO such thing as a single ITV company yet STV/ Grampian and UTV are not part of a national ITV company and i fail to see why you seem to think that "regional presentation has been cast out to sea "it hasn't in Scotland or NI which are still part of ITV and as mentioned ITV is not a strong brand in Scotland or NI hence the regional idents and no NPU trailers with ITV branding on them.

Patronising I'd go for - I'd argue that a good dose of that is necessary when the forum is overrun with so many simpletons. But hey. Hypocritical? Kindly point out my hypocracy.



Once again, you have not read what I've written.

I haven't addressed the nations once, so how you think I'm wrong with regards to the nations I really am interested. My point of view is that the nations DO require ammended branding to the rest of the network. My point of view is that this has been implemented badly in Scotland alone. Scottish have tried to have the best of both worlds - corporate AND local. But their simultaneous cutting of corners means it looks bad on-screen. I'd need to think more than I'm prepared to tonight to come up with a potential solution for this mess.

Despite your ramblings on this particular area, I fail to see how you think ITV1 across-the-board branding is a failure. Just because Scottish have made a car accident out of it doesn't mean the national identity is a failure. And I wish you'd actually find your facts and look at the wider picture instead of accusing me of talking rubbish when you're looking at something I haven't even spoken about.



Your logic there is AWOL.

Yes, there is a single ITV company actually. But again, I haven't even addressed that because company structure and on-screen presentation are completely different animals - as I have already said, but you clearly haven't read. So that is irrelevant.

ITV HAS made the decision to cast regional presentation out to sea. SMG and UTV decided not to go along with the rest of the network's decision. SMG have implemented their own branding badly. And because of that, it doesn't work as well as it should do north of the border. But why are you applying that to the whole country and saying that ITV's consolidated branding is not working when it clearly is?

Don't think I'll quote any of that, otherwise we'll be on page 10 before we know it...

I'm afraid that, while I'd like to agree with your argument that STV is a strong brand, and the people of Scotland would be scandalised if it disappeared, I don't think it's the case. I think that ITV1, if done in the same way as ITV1 Wales, could do just as well, if not better. Get Scottish Paul to do the announcements, and it'll be all the better. What they have to avoid is mistakes like the bulldog ident, otherwise they could create a full-scale riot.

Genuinely, would anyone like to see the STV thistle logo back in the year 2004, or, more relevantly, would anything think it would be relevant and attractive to viewers as a 'brand'? (argh - there's that word again). If you ask any Scottish person what they hate most it's the stereotype of this country of being tartan and shortbread, and yet a regional ITV company makes a thistle its ident? And if you look at SMG's handling of the celebrity idents.... well it's hard to see ITV1 doing a worse job.

Of course, this is how we were forced to swallow rail privatisation - the service was run into the ground and people felt the alternative couldn't be any worse, but that might be just a little bit too political (if anyone wants to continue that discussion, there's always Metropol).

Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent. I'd like to see SMG remain independent, and if they were able to suddenly re-gain some enthusiasm and put some effort in (maybe a new logo using a contemporary equivalent of the old Grampian saltire, perhaps?), then perhaps you could argue that the brand is strong enough as it is. But looking at it from a hard-headed, non-anoraky, business-like standpoint, you have to accept that a united ITV1 is a stronger business proposition. And I'm afraid making money is what it's all about.

Hey look, it's page 10.

I think it is fair to say that in this multi channel world we live in today, a single ITV1 brand is essential, and the branding is as strong as it has ever been, having said that it's a shame that regional idents only appear between local programmes and stuff, and I'd rather see the Central cake as well, but it's long gone now, we live in another era now, the digital age with gezillions of digital channels, and ITV along with the rest now have to compete for a ever fragramented audience.

A very true and valid point IMO, I don't see anything wrong with having a national ITV1 brand, as ITV is losing a lot of audience and sadly it was one of the few things that has to keep itself surviving in a multi channel age, it is also important now that ITV is no longer on its own, it has ITV2, ITV News and later this year ITV3 and I guess there will be more to come as the years progress. They have to make an image that tells viewers of what they are, as selling itself is critical for ITV to survive.

Believe me I would love to see Granada as an identity again, but it doesn't mean much these days as there isn't much local programming, the schedule is mainly the same across the Network, plus for ITV it costs too much and isn't really seen as important. Frankly it is only a few us who whinge all the time that they miss their old local ITV station, I know it is a shame, but they can't stay around forever as they can't survive like that, ITV is now one company as it has to save money to survive, with BSkyB coming closer and closer to being bigger and more powerful than ITV, which I can see happening.

It's just the idents I find crap, I don't mind the whole 4 squares logo, thats a good idea, I don't mind how the network is set-up now, with transmission from LNN and regional news looking the same as national news, it is what ITV has to be for it to be financially viable company.

Are you for real perhaps if you did take the trouble to think about how the nations fit in to this so called single ITV company before droaning on about how ITV branding is working you would get my point .


You just don't have a clue .You should change your name to Tony Blair your full of it .

Now now people, it's ITV idents we're discussing, not the war in Iraq or something.

As far as I can see, DAS has said that a single ITV1 brand throughout the country is the best way to go, although you haven't specifically addressed STV.

However lewis would rather see SMG remain with their own presentation.

So I suppose the question is - DAS, do you reckon a separate SMG can work, and whether it's the right way to go, or do you reckon, as I suspect, that the whole country should just see a generic ITV1 logo.

And then can we let it lie? Please?

Yours, Kofi Annan the second.

Oh please.

Come back when you've got an argument, some facts and a bit of sense.

Yours,
Tony.

I think the whole nations thing needs a bit of consideration, and I'd hate to be the one in charge because it's a tricky area.

The thing I would say for sure is the nations need separate continuity. I don't think they should opt for the recorded playout from London option though.

As for identity, I really don't know. UTV have opted for totally separate. Scottish have opted for half and half. HTV Wales have gone for corporate. Each of those have their pros and cons, but I don't think any of those three options work as they are implemented at the moment.

In short... I don't know. I'll think about that one.

Das i think we have to agree to disagree here otherwise it's going to go on and on .

All i am saying is that in Scotland and NI the ITV rebrand is not a success it's a mess and it's not coherant with the rest of the network at the moment .

I agree with you that the ITV rebrand is working and it stands ITV in a strong position in England but in Scotland the only hint of ITV pres we get is ITV 2 promos and that is fairly new .In Scotland people identify more with STV /Grampian TV than they do with ITV 1 so i feel that the ITV rebrand has not worked for us the fact that SMG and UTV have done their own thing with it is not my fault and that's all i intend to say about it .

I agree.

Yes.

So the national brand isn't applicable to Scotland then, is it? Hence the reason why introducing your Scottish thing made no sense in the context of this discussion.

Had you posted that post instead of your rant about Scotland, it would have been a bit easier, wouldn't it? I'm not quite sure where Tony Blair comes into it myself, and I'd bet £7 you don't either.

So there you go.

Oh dear another arguement