GR
thegreenfairy
I didn't include channels which MIGHT go FTA - strictly speaking Sky News and Sky One are still rumours so i didn't count them.
CW
cwathen
Founding member
Sky News is FTA. It's FTA On Astra 1 Digital (and was also FTA on Analogue until this service was pulled in June) and it's FTA on Astra 2 (i.e. SkyDigital). Sky One used to be FTA many many many years ago but I don't see it going that way now.
It'll be great if that happens, it'll also finally but ITV Digital to bed. If Sky One, UK Gold, Eurosport and Cartoon Network Discovery and E4 all go FTA, that'll take out a lot of ITV Digital's customer as those 6 are a popular choice on the 6 primary channels package. It won't be clear how this can happen atm tho. All of those channels are on ITV Digital's multiplexes. I don't think the owners of the channels can stop ITV Digital from charging for them and I don't see ITV Dig letting them go FTA if it'll mean that 4 of their most popular subscription channels will be taken away from them. They'll need more space.
Although if they go FTA on SkyDigital, ITV Digital will be under enormous pressue to do the same, and will have to, or else collapse under the resistance of it, either way if ITV Digital left there would be 3 new multiplexes which could be licensed back out (I think the Beeb should definately have a second multiplex, whatever happens).
It'll be great if that happens, it'll also finally but ITV Digital to bed. If Sky One, UK Gold, Eurosport and Cartoon Network Discovery and E4 all go FTA, that'll take out a lot of ITV Digital's customer as those 6 are a popular choice on the 6 primary channels package. It won't be clear how this can happen atm tho. All of those channels are on ITV Digital's multiplexes. I don't think the owners of the channels can stop ITV Digital from charging for them and I don't see ITV Dig letting them go FTA if it'll mean that 4 of their most popular subscription channels will be taken away from them. They'll need more space.
Although if they go FTA on SkyDigital, ITV Digital will be under enormous pressue to do the same, and will have to, or else collapse under the resistance of it, either way if ITV Digital left there would be 3 new multiplexes which could be licensed back out (I think the Beeb should definately have a second multiplex, whatever happens).
MP
mphillp
Quote:
square eyes on 6:43 pm on Jan. 17, 2002
The 15th channel could be GMTV2 ?
The 15th channel could be GMTV2 ?
GMTV2 shares with ITV2 on DTT.
SE
Square Eyes
Founding member
Yes I know that, but it doesn't stop them from claiming it to be another channel.
GR
thegreenfairy
In Scotland and Northern ireland I believe GMTV2 appears on a different channel number and not integrated into the ITV2 service as in the rest of the UK.
As to FTA Digital, I firmly belive that ITV Digital, even if they don't actually go bust will have their license to broadcast removed at the earliest opportunity. They are not a viable service, making the primary TV platform mainly subscription is simply never going to work.
I would certainly like to see the BBC given more space but possibly not till analogue switchoff starts. The reclaimed ITV Digital muxes (plus any extra space) Should be administered by a Broadcasting Commission and channels should apply to run services, renting space in exchange for a set admin fee. The commission would be run as a not-for-profit agency and allocate space on the basis of public-interest, demand for channels and balance of genre (e.g, if UK Style, CFN and Breeze were already broadcasting, there is no way it would grant a license to Wellbeing!) The commission would also manage things like developing software and any billing for premium channels.
I would like to see something like.
MUX 1
(Existing BBC Mux)
-BBC1
-BBC2
-BBC3
-BBC4
-BBC News 24
+[space for alternate programmes/extra screens of news]
Mux 2
(Existing ITV/C4 Mux)
-ITV1
-ITV2
-ITV News Channel
-Monkey (CITV Channel)
-ITV Plus (GranadaPlus/Carlton Select type)
-ITV Sport
Mux 3
(New Mux reserved for Channel 4)
-Channel 4
-E4
-4 Music
-FilmFour
-FilmFour World
-Filmfour Extreme
Mux 4
(New Mux divided 50/25/25 between BBC and 2 new public service channels)
-BBC Parliament (with extra screen capacity)
-BBC Kids (combined CBBC channel)
-'Channel 6' general entertainment licensed channel
-'Channel 7' local channels/public access with networked arts/high-brow in the evening
-S4C/TeleG/TG4
[Extra space reserved for future expansion]
Mux A
(Existing)
-Channel 5
-Sky News
-Sky One
-The Studio
-Classic Sport
-Shop
Mux B
(Existing - reserved for Premiums)
-Sky Sports 1,2,3
-Sky Movies Channels
Mux C
-Eurosport
-Cartoon Network
-MTV
-Paramount
-Nickelodeon
-VH1
Mux D
-UK Gold
-UK Horizons
-UK Style
-PlayUK
-UK Food/UK Gold2
-UK Drama
Mux E
-Discovery1
-Discovery2 (Two channels offering a 'best of' package)
-Living
-Bravo
-Trouble
-Carlton Cinema
...............................
Something like that anyway.
'The Commission' would have to deliberate!
I think 3 extra muxes after switchoff is fair. In the future it may be possible to reorganise the frequencies to fit in more but rather than plan for the best case scenario (6 extra nationwide muxes) I decided to err on the side of caution.
(Edited by thegreenfairy at 11:01 pm on Jan. 17, 2002)
As to FTA Digital, I firmly belive that ITV Digital, even if they don't actually go bust will have their license to broadcast removed at the earliest opportunity. They are not a viable service, making the primary TV platform mainly subscription is simply never going to work.
I would certainly like to see the BBC given more space but possibly not till analogue switchoff starts. The reclaimed ITV Digital muxes (plus any extra space) Should be administered by a Broadcasting Commission and channels should apply to run services, renting space in exchange for a set admin fee. The commission would be run as a not-for-profit agency and allocate space on the basis of public-interest, demand for channels and balance of genre (e.g, if UK Style, CFN and Breeze were already broadcasting, there is no way it would grant a license to Wellbeing!) The commission would also manage things like developing software and any billing for premium channels.
I would like to see something like.
MUX 1
(Existing BBC Mux)
-BBC1
-BBC2
-BBC3
-BBC4
-BBC News 24
+[space for alternate programmes/extra screens of news]
Mux 2
(Existing ITV/C4 Mux)
-ITV1
-ITV2
-ITV News Channel
-Monkey (CITV Channel)
-ITV Plus (GranadaPlus/Carlton Select type)
-ITV Sport
Mux 3
(New Mux reserved for Channel 4)
-Channel 4
-E4
-4 Music
-FilmFour
-FilmFour World
-Filmfour Extreme
Mux 4
(New Mux divided 50/25/25 between BBC and 2 new public service channels)
-BBC Parliament (with extra screen capacity)
-BBC Kids (combined CBBC channel)
-'Channel 6' general entertainment licensed channel
-'Channel 7' local channels/public access with networked arts/high-brow in the evening
-S4C/TeleG/TG4
[Extra space reserved for future expansion]
Mux A
(Existing)
-Channel 5
-Sky News
-Sky One
-The Studio
-Classic Sport
-Shop
Mux B
(Existing - reserved for Premiums)
-Sky Sports 1,2,3
-Sky Movies Channels
Mux C
-Eurosport
-Cartoon Network
-MTV
-Paramount
-Nickelodeon
-VH1
Mux D
-UK Gold
-UK Horizons
-UK Style
-PlayUK
-UK Food/UK Gold2
-UK Drama
Mux E
-Discovery1
-Discovery2 (Two channels offering a 'best of' package)
-Living
-Bravo
-Trouble
-Carlton Cinema
...............................
Something like that anyway.
'The Commission' would have to deliberate!
I think 3 extra muxes after switchoff is fair. In the future it may be possible to reorganise the frequencies to fit in more but rather than plan for the best case scenario (6 extra nationwide muxes) I decided to err on the side of caution.
(Edited by thegreenfairy at 11:01 pm on Jan. 17, 2002)
CA
CrystalAvenger
Quote:
thegreenfairy on 10:34 pm on Jan. 17, 2002
As to FTA Digital, I firmly belive that ITV Digital, even if they don't actually go bust will have their license to broadcast removed at the earliest opportunity. They are not a viable service, making the primary TV platform mainly subscription is simply never going to work.
As to FTA Digital, I firmly belive that ITV Digital, even if they don't actually go bust will have their license to broadcast removed at the earliest opportunity. They are not a viable service, making the primary TV platform mainly subscription is simply never going to work.
Some people will always be willing to pay for additional channels that cater for a special interest that might not be satisfactorally covered by the more general channels you will get FTA - for example, I'm very happy paying the equavalent of a night out a month for some additional channels such as Eurosport and so on that cater for special interests of mine.
I think because subscription TV is still to an extent a fairly new thing for many people in Britain (after all, apart from Cable and Sky which started up about 10 years ago, we only had to contribute to the BBC before) I think some people still have a relucance to the idea - which is fair enough, and I can perfectly understand their reasons for that.
Don't get me wrong - I can see clearly that ITV Digital has it's problems - but you also have to bare in mind many other factors - such as the fact Sky have to an extent had a bit of a head start because they have been in a position to push their digital service to the full from the start, whilst at the moment, ITV Digital is having a bit of a brake applied to it with regards to the fact that only a certain amount of capacity can be made available to the network because of the implications of running the system alongside the old system on the same transmitters, and the concequences that has for both sets of audiances. Also, subconciously I think there's a certain status symbol people feel they get about having that nice shiny little minidish hanging from the side of their house, compaired to a common old aerial on the roof.
So, to finish my contribution to this thread (because I guess I have had quite a lot to say on this http://web.ukonline.co.uk/tv.home/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) like it or not, there is plenty of space on the DTT network for a free service alongside the subscription service (i.e. ITV Digital). However, I would support the idea of some form of body to oversee the running of both sides of the DTT network. We can't really continue with the current situation of unsuccessful channels closing and being left blank for weeks or even months on end - that for sure is not going to convince people to come over to DTT.
GR
thegreenfairy
Good to see i'm not the only one capable of
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posts on here!
The problem is that any pay-TV platform/service in the UK is, by definition, in competition with Sky. And DTT just simply doesn't have the capacity to do it. Terrestrial Pay TV will always be a poor alternative to Satellite or Cable, and pay TV will always be an add-on service you subscribe to in addition to the main platform we all get (Currently Analogue Terrestrial, but soon DTT) - so allowing Pay-TV to dominate the terrestrial platform just makes little sense to me.
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posts on here!
The problem is that any pay-TV platform/service in the UK is, by definition, in competition with Sky. And DTT just simply doesn't have the capacity to do it. Terrestrial Pay TV will always be a poor alternative to Satellite or Cable, and pay TV will always be an add-on service you subscribe to in addition to the main platform we all get (Currently Analogue Terrestrial, but soon DTT) - so allowing Pay-TV to dominate the terrestrial platform just makes little sense to me.
TV
tvmercia
Founding member
i do agree that an independant public body should be in controll of the DTT platform, in the same way the ITC issue the rights to broadcast on analogue. so there would be no need for itv digital, box makers like Pace/Phillips could have churned out standard boxes, which recieve decent - attractive set of FTA channels like UKGold, Sky one, BBC 3/4/n24/ even e4 and sky news. making it as easy and cheap to buy dtt as buying a VCR.
it would seem obvious to me, that general entertainment channels should be FTA to attract people to switch to dtt, increasing viewership for the channels, and making it more possible for people to pay for one off PPV, and subscriptions to sports channels.
the whole saga of dtt has been mismanaged by the GVT, im sure huge ammounts were involved with carlton/granada buying the dtt platform.
it would seem obvious to me, that general entertainment channels should be FTA to attract people to switch to dtt, increasing viewership for the channels, and making it more possible for people to pay for one off PPV, and subscriptions to sports channels.
the whole saga of dtt has been mismanaged by the GVT, im sure huge ammounts were involved with carlton/granada buying the dtt platform.
WH
Whataday
Founding member
There's a new part to the story today:
Pace Micro Technology, the UK's main digital set-top box maker, has stolen the BBC and ITV's thunder by launching a set-top box which allows viewers to pick up free-to-air channels.
Pace said the £100 box will go on sale from March 30 and is not related to the so-called 'Boxco' coalition formed by the BBC, the major free-to-air networks and other set-top box makers.
However, the Pace product follows the Boxco blueprint of a cheap product that can be plugged into the back of an analogue TV set, allowing viewers to access more than 15 free-to-air channels, including BBC Choice and ITV2.
The Pace box can also be upgraded to allow customers to take up pay-per-view services such as ITV Digital.
A spokeswoman for Pace said the box was a landmark in the UK's bid to become a 100% digital TV nation before 2010.
'It means that the government's plan to switch to the digital signal is becoming a real possibility,' she said.
Meanwhile, sources at the BBC and ITV giants Granada and Carlton Communications said discussions over Boxco were ongoing, amid reports that the consortium is set to launch its own product in April.
However, a spokesman for ITV Digital backed the Pace initiative.
'These products represent a strong opportunity for ITV Digital to expand its business cost inexpensively, since they will be able to be upgraded at low cost to receive ITV Digital's range of pay-TV channels, and will not require the set-top box subsidy which current customers enjoy.
'They will be a valuable addition to the existing range of set-top boxes available on free loan to ITV Digital customers,' he said.
GUARDIAN
Pace Micro Technology, the UK's main digital set-top box maker, has stolen the BBC and ITV's thunder by launching a set-top box which allows viewers to pick up free-to-air channels.
Pace said the £100 box will go on sale from March 30 and is not related to the so-called 'Boxco' coalition formed by the BBC, the major free-to-air networks and other set-top box makers.
However, the Pace product follows the Boxco blueprint of a cheap product that can be plugged into the back of an analogue TV set, allowing viewers to access more than 15 free-to-air channels, including BBC Choice and ITV2.
The Pace box can also be upgraded to allow customers to take up pay-per-view services such as ITV Digital.
A spokeswoman for Pace said the box was a landmark in the UK's bid to become a 100% digital TV nation before 2010.
'It means that the government's plan to switch to the digital signal is becoming a real possibility,' she said.
Meanwhile, sources at the BBC and ITV giants Granada and Carlton Communications said discussions over Boxco were ongoing, amid reports that the consortium is set to launch its own product in April.
However, a spokesman for ITV Digital backed the Pace initiative.
'These products represent a strong opportunity for ITV Digital to expand its business cost inexpensively, since they will be able to be upgraded at low cost to receive ITV Digital's range of pay-TV channels, and will not require the set-top box subsidy which current customers enjoy.
'They will be a valuable addition to the existing range of set-top boxes available on free loan to ITV Digital customers,' he said.
GUARDIAN
CK
ckent
Quote:
CrystalAvenger on 5:03 pm on Jan. 17, 2002
Obviously if they're transmitting the digital signals at a stronger strength they will be able to travel further and so on, but also, wouldn't this also mean it would be possible to stream out more data in the signal as well? I ask because this is one aspect of DTT broadcasts I'm not totally sure about...
Obviously if they're transmitting the digital signals at a stronger strength they will be able to travel further and so on, but also, wouldn't this also mean it would be possible to stream out more data in the signal as well? I ask because this is one aspect of DTT broadcasts I'm not totally sure about...
The COFDM modulation in DVB-T is able to handle a panoply of bitrates, as a function of its various symbol rates, error correction rates and guard intervals. The only thing that is fixed is the spectrum bandwidth, because each country has its own (the UK is 8MHz).
Within a given bandwidth and signal strength, you can still increase the bitrate by cutting the guard interval down, then increase the forward error correction to make the reception easier for weaker areas. However what you then lose is the maximum distance you can have between transmitters for Single Frequency Networks (SFNs), which is where you share transmitters across different regional areas all with the same transmission frequency. Basically the guard interval is something that changes the number of microseconds you can let the signal travel from one transmitter (at the speed of light) to a Set Top Box before the same signal from another transmitter in a different area gets too out-of-sync and causes both to cancel out.
So yeah, lots of options. And basically the story with ATSC is, you can't do any of that
CK.